The Movement System and Church Planters
We spoke with Andy Sikora (Pastor at Renew Communities and Director of Church Multiplication for the Church of the United Brethren in Christ) following the UB National Conference. In the first part of our conversation we dove into the ins and outs of The Movement System that many of us were introduced to at conference. Then we turned a corner for a conversation about church planting, which Andy oversees for the denomination.
Over the course of the next 4 episodes we will speak to three others who are planing churches and have a shared launch date of September 7, 2025.
Subscribe to the podcast now so you don't miss those episodes when they are available.
Connect with Andy and Renew Communities.
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Host: Brian Biedenbach
Transcript
Hey, welcome to our UB now, live at lunch.
Speaker A:I'm here with Andy Socorro, our director of Church Multiplication.
Speaker A:As you can see, that fancy title down in the, the corner of the box there that we learned how to use today.
Speaker A:Andy's back from sabbatical just recently.
Speaker A:Welcome back, man.
Speaker A:How you doing?
Speaker B:Good, man, good.
Speaker B:I'm also, I pastor a local church here in Cleveland area, so that's the place I took most of my time off.
Speaker B:I did take a little time off from the Church Multiplication role, too, but back about a week in now.
Speaker A:Yeah, very good.
Speaker A:How's it been?
Speaker A:Like, your sabbatical, your time off from the church?
Speaker B:Sabbatical was great.
Speaker B:You know, I think I've got lots of stories I could tell, but, you know, right before I went out on sabbatical, I thought, do I really need a sabbatical?
Speaker B:We have a policy at our church, kind of affords it in certain times.
Speaker B:And if I didn't take it this year, kind of be out of that window and started to think it back over the years that between the last one and this one, I was like, okay, I could probably, probably need a break, reflect, think on these things.
Speaker B:And I felt like God really met me in that time.
Speaker B:And it was a really rich time.
Speaker B:And I'm a, I like to do things, and so I don't want to just, like, rest.
Speaker B:So I did a lot of active resting, you know, like, with people and activities.
Speaker B:And so it was the right amount of things.
Speaker B:And right in the middle of it, we had our national conference, which was great too.
Speaker B:And so it's good.
Speaker B:And then come back, you know, like I was telling you right before we got on here, like, you find the things that weren't finished or weren't working before you left, or still not finished and not working kind of back, back to the grind.
Speaker B:You just kind of hope some magic happens while you're gone.
Speaker B:And it didn't happen, you know, miracle.
Speaker B:I mean, maybe there were some miracles, but they didn't land on those things.
Speaker A:So the things you were hoping they would land on.
Speaker A:Right, yeah, yeah, no doubt.
Speaker A:No, I'm glad, honestly, that you took the sabbatical.
Speaker A:I, I, When I hear from people who are just getting ready to go on sabbatical or just got back, like, I'm glad organizations, ministry organizations are thinking about that more intentionally now.
Speaker A:Like, you know, the organizations I've been a part of have not had policies in place.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it seems that I've always left those after 10 years, seven years, eight years, as they were putting them in place and I'm like, oh, and then I'm starting somewhere new that doesn't have a SAB policy.
Speaker A:So I'm glad it's, it's being an intentional thing and that you took the time to do it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But glad you're back as well.
Speaker A:So I'm sure, I'm sure Renew Communities is glad to have you back.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:At the helm at the church there too.
Speaker A:So they're probably praying for miracles too, while you were gone.
Speaker A:So anyway, well, hey, I wanted to talk a little bit about a couple things today.
Speaker A:The you mentioned national conference and we talked about this thing called the movement system at national conference.
Speaker A:And we have a couple catalysts that are.
Speaker A:One, it started, I think you said, one starts tomorrow and one in September that we'll talk more specifically about as we go.
Speaker A:But I want to talk a little bit about the movement system that we talked about at national conference and what that, what that is, what that means.
Speaker A:Just maybe for those who were there, just a quick overview, refresher of that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, in the big picture, the idea is that, you know, there are, there are disciple making movements happening or church multiplication movements happening across the world.
Speaker B:They've happened throughout history.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker B:The United Brethren in Christ, when we started, we were really a movement, you know, a movement of, of multiplication, disciple making, church planting.
Speaker B:And really, you know, there's a lot of good research and thoughts about what, what makes a movement.
Speaker B:The idea is just multiplication that happens throughout, that keeps moving forward, you know.
Speaker B:And so our friends from new thing, they're not combined with exponential, which is a church planting kind of group.
Speaker B:They, they put on conferences and trainings and we've learned a lot from them.
Speaker B:In our denomination here at our church, they started kind of working through historically and also like internationally what makes a movement for church planting or church movement.
Speaker B:And so they uncovered, you know, five elements.
Speaker B:There's the disciples, then there are.
Speaker B:It's like reproducing disciples, reproducing leaders, reproducing churches which reproduce networks and then reproduce into a movement.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then movements can reproduce by sending out all those things again.
Speaker B:And, and their symbol is kind of like an infinity symbol.
Speaker B:It just keeps coming back and repeating on itself.
Speaker B:And so, you know, and it all centers around the church.
Speaker B:So movements start more churches which make more disciples, which raise up more leaders who start churches that do networks, that kind of thing.
Speaker B:So the idea is, you know, we cannot create movement, we cannot make movement, you know, but we can increase our tendency to build Disciples, make disciples, build up leaders, send out church planters, you know, resource these new churches.
Speaker B:We can really invest in that.
Speaker B:But the only way, even those things don't just happen.
Speaker B:They have to happen systematically or strategically.
Speaker B:And so, you know, Rob Wagner spent a lot of time talking to us about what that looks like in our churches.
Speaker B:But really, you know, we.
Speaker B:We know that it.
Speaker B:The way it happens is through personal decision.
Speaker B:You know, like whether it's a personal decision of a pastor or a leader, a follower of Jesus, or maybe a collective decision at a church level that says, hey, we're going to get really serious about making disciples or planting churches or raising up leaders.
Speaker B:And so what we wanted to do as a denomination was offer, like, trainings or pathways to help churches and leaders think about what does that look like at our church, in our life, in our context.
Speaker B:Because too often we know we want to do something, but we end up trying to just, like, import a plan, you know, copy and paste the plan from some book or some conference, and we put it in place.
Speaker B:Maybe we do a lot of work, maybe we do a little work, but then in the end we're like, well, it doesn't work.
Speaker B:And, you know, the question is like, does it not work or does it not work here, or do we not know how to make it work?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:And so instead of trying to do that kind of like, copy, paste, prescriptive model, it's a.
Speaker B:Each of these trainings that we offer through the movement system are eight weeks where it's more descriptive.
Speaker B:We give, like, content.
Speaker B:They call it a reverse, reverse classroom model, where you learn or you read content, and then you unpack and discuss in these huddles, both, like, online and locally so that you can build it out of your own context.
Speaker B:So, so long answer.
Speaker B:But that's really the heart and soul of what the movement system is.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, I remember talking with Dave, Ron, some of you may know that name in another, in another world that we lived in at one point, and just talking about this idea of, you know, people coming to know Jesus and we.
Speaker A:The fact that we don't necessarily have control of that, but that's the number we count in a lot of ways.
Speaker A:And a lot of times, right?
Speaker A:When we're, you know, filling out reports, converts, baptisms, those sorts of things.
Speaker A:And, you know, I remember him saying, like, we can't, we can't.
Speaker A:We are not the deciding factor if someone comes to know Jesus.
Speaker A:But there are things that we can do to be faithful, to set the environment, to have the Conversations to, to lead that person in that direction.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so that's what this feels like to me.
Speaker A:It's what are the things that are in our power, that if we do these things faithfully, we create an environment with the right ingredients that someone can come to know Jesus, come to be a disciple, come to be a leader, plant churches and go from there.
Speaker A:So that's what that this conversation reminds me of.
Speaker B:Well, and I think the thing is that there's, it's like there's two parts to all of these things.
Speaker B:Like you need a plan, but you have to it.
Speaker B:It has to be owned personally.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, like, so we can have a system or a structure or a framework or whatever.
Speaker B:You can have a workbook, you know, a 10 year vision.
Speaker B:You just name it, anything.
Speaker B:Everything on paper is great.
Speaker B:And so a plan matters, but you have to have the people or the person who's committed to work the plan.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And that's it really matters.
Speaker B:And so the one thing I love a lot about the movement system, but the idea is that these become personal plans.
Speaker B:Like they come out of our heart in our local church and the people that we're working with and the people who live in our neighborhood and the communities surrounding us that need churches.
Speaker B:So the plan is personal.
Speaker B:And the cool part is that it only works if we apply ourselves to the plan then.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like it's not like we can.
Speaker B:You know, I used to have an algebra teacher.
Speaker B:He, he was a football coach.
Speaker B:But he would like, you'd get work through the plan and then he's like, okay, now it's just simple plug and chug mathematics, right?
Speaker B:You just now just do the work.
Speaker B:Plug and chug.
Speaker B:And I think that's what we want in like systems for church, but probably in lots of parts of the world.
Speaker B:But nothing works that way.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It would be great if you could then just set it and forget it and walk away.
Speaker B:But you know, Jesus gave us the great commission.
Speaker B:He didn't just say, now run this plan and it will all work out.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, I love it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So we do have a couple of the catalysts that are kicking off that you mentioned these training sessions, the reproducing disciples.
Speaker A:Catalyst kicked off already.
Speaker A:I believe last week was the first meeting.
Speaker A:And that was cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was cool.
Speaker A:In no time, right?
Speaker A:Like 30 people.
Speaker B:And then we had people jump in right after we launched too.
Speaker B:And I was talking, Gerald is helping me lead that as well.
Speaker B:And we were like, we could have probably started a Second cohort, like the.
Speaker B:A week after we started, and it would have been a little better, but we've seen a lot of, like, response to that, and we're excited to see where that goes.
Speaker A:Was it the response you expected or were you kind of overwhelmed by the number of people that jumped in right away?
Speaker B:You know, man, I think, if I'm honest with you, I.
Speaker B:Here's what I think.
Speaker B:I didn't know what was going to happen.
Speaker B:You know, if I'm just being honest with you, you know, we had a high focus on all of this in our national conference this year, but also over the last several years, this has been a high focus.
Speaker B:And so, you know, we've been doing the work.
Speaker B:We've been building in the plan.
Speaker B:Not just me, but, like, our Holden, whole national leadership team has been doing this work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so the.
Speaker B:The stage was set for it.
Speaker B:Rob did a great job at national conference, but you just never know how it'll be received and what people will do.
Speaker B:And so I was just really thinking, like, this is what we sense God was leading us to as a.
Speaker B:As a group leadership group.
Speaker B:And we've made the investment over the last year of training and learning.
Speaker B:You know, Bishop Todd is, like, given the green light and been really involved as well.
Speaker B:So it's kind of like, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm trusting that this is where God has led us.
Speaker B:So, you know, I didn't know.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was really excited when I started seeing.
Speaker B:We had like 10 and then 20 and then 30, and, you know, now I think there's like, 35 people connected to this first one, which is about 10 more than we.
Speaker B:We're, like, planning on.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker A:I'd failed to mention early on, if you're watching this live and you've got questions as we go, or comments if you're in the.
Speaker A:In the chat or if you're in one of the.
Speaker A:The catalysts and you've got questions or want to share your experience, drop it in the comments.
Speaker A:Yeah, and we can.
Speaker A:We can ask the question of Andy or we can address it here.
Speaker A:So we'd love to see you.
Speaker A:You chime in there.
Speaker A:So that's the Reproducing Disciples catalyst.
Speaker A:What are.
Speaker A:What's, you know, the outcome of that?
Speaker A:If someone goes through the Reproducing disciples, what is the hope as they walk away from that?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, essentially the idea.
Speaker B:It starts with this idea that you're going to be able to define what a disciple is in your context.
Speaker B:And that shouldn't.
Speaker B:Sometimes people get, like, nervous, oh, I'm going to define what a disciple is.
Speaker B:But really, it's like saying, taking everything you know from Scripture, everything that Jesus has said and shown us, everything that we kind of understand, maybe theologically or even doctrinally, what does a disciple of Jesus look like?
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And like, how would you describe that in your space, right?
Speaker B:In your church, in your community?
Speaker B:So when somebody came and said, hey, I. I want to be a disciple, then you can say, this is what a disciple is.
Speaker B:Or if you go like, hey, we're going to make a cake, I'd say, well, what is a cake?
Speaker B:If you can't tell me what feel like a cake is full of, like, chicken and salt, I'd be like, that does not sound like a cake, Right?
Speaker B:You can't make one if you don't know what it is.
Speaker B:And so to be able to define what.
Speaker B:And then how, if this is the definition, what is the process that we need to build to walk through with people?
Speaker B:So at the end, you have a definition and a process that you can then be put into practice.
Speaker B:So kind of like with people in your context, so that's what you'd walk away with after that.
Speaker B:For us at Renew, when we started this process, we kind of had, like, if you would have asked our team what a disciple was, we probably have, like, definitions that we're in the neighborhood of each other.
Speaker B:But we got really close and we said, a disciple is someone who follows Jesus, practices the ways of Jesus, and then teaches others to do the same.
Speaker B:So it has that great commission like language in it.
Speaker B:But then if you said, okay, what does it mean to follow Jesus means we surrender our lives.
Speaker B:How do we know someone surrendered?
Speaker B:Well, maybe they make a verbal declaration, but they go forward in baptism, right?
Speaker B:They're surrendering their life.
Speaker B:What do we do to practice the ways of Jesus?
Speaker B:We have five practices.
Speaker B:We read, we eat with others in and outside of the church on mission.
Speaker B:We neighbor God, who have you sent me here to love?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:We empower.
Speaker B:So we say things, do things, give things other people wouldn't to propel people to the life God's called them to.
Speaker B:And then we.
Speaker B:Which is like blessing.
Speaker B:And then we wait in prayer.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We don't just ask God, but we also listen for what God is calling us to do next.
Speaker B:And then we teach others how to do that again and again, right?
Speaker B:And so for us, I mean, you can just hear the clarity of that in our context.
Speaker B:So it drives what we do with kids and youth in our huddles, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:And you know, that what I just described to you took us, you know, through like Catalyst kind of environment, but then it took us like a year to build it out and then another year to practice it and start.
Speaker B:Does this work?
Speaker B:You know, now we're running these discipleship huddles that then the people who go through that either start new huddles or start a microchurch with the same kind of framework of trying to make disciples in the same way.
Speaker B:So that is hopefully what you would get out of a discipleship catalyst.
Speaker B:Now it may be that, like, you go through it once and you start working on it, you're like, okay, we've got a little clarity.
Speaker B:You may want to go through the next one again to try and get a little bit more clarity, to kind of work it through.
Speaker B:Jim Bullock went through our kind of pilot version of it, created a real great framework, started working with four or five guys who went through a process with him and are ready to lead, but he's like, hey, why don't we all go through this disciples Catalyst so that they're ready to do it as well?
Speaker B:So, you know, that tool is something that we hope to offer again and again.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love the idea there of like, defining the word disciple.
Speaker A:And it seems so simple because we can look in Scripture and go, well, this is what a disciple is.
Speaker A:But if you can't define it clearly, like you just laid out at Renew Communities, it's hard to, you know, aim at that target.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so your three phrases that you had, even the way you broke it down, like, what does it mean to practice the ways of Jesus?
Speaker A:Like, I love the clarity of that definition.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think if, you know, churches can, and leaders can come out of this with an idea of, I need to get to that clarity.
Speaker A:Maybe I don't know what that clarity is yet, but I need to get there, I think would be incredibly advantageous.
Speaker B:Well, and I'll just say, I mean, we've been working on this in our church for probably five or six years.
Speaker B:We went through a thing called the multipliers Learning community that other leaders in our denomination did.
Speaker B:And so we really have been wrestling with this and we have like a, you know, a 16 week huddle around Disciple making, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, so we developed a lot of stuff.
Speaker B:Like, we wrote this book.
Speaker B:I mean, it's like a real book that's the practices of Jesus that we we highlight.
Speaker B:And so, like, if you came to our church, if you attended a gathering on a Sunday, if you got involved in a microchurch, whatever, and you're like, hey, what do I need to do to follow Jesus?
Speaker B:What does it mean to grow in Jesus?
Speaker B:It's not just that we have a plan, but we built it for our context where our people are like, oh, have you read this book?
Speaker B:Are you in a hot.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, like, so all of a sudden there's this ecosystem that's not just riding on the pastor, but people who are being discipled, inviting other people into that same process.
Speaker B:Now, it may not develop as fully, or you may not want to develop these materials the same way, but for us, it really gives us, like, hard materials to put into people's hands, like real things that we know.
Speaker B:If you walk this through, I mean, we can't guarantee life change.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:But if you're willing to surrender and practice his ways, we think transformation is going to come, and mission almost always follows a transformed life.
Speaker B:And so, you know, it's been really fruitful.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so there's two other catalysts happening.
Speaker A:So the Reproducing Leaders catalyst actually starts next month, September 18th, but there's another one that starts, I think you said tomorrow, the Reproducing Church's catalyst.
Speaker A:And so just quickly, you know, 60 seconds on each of those.
Speaker A:What are what.
Speaker A:Give us just a quick overview of what those would.
Speaker A:Will look like.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:So I would say Reproducing Leaders, basically, if you have a.
Speaker B:A disciple who feels called into to kind of leadership.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So they're going to be following Jesus.
Speaker B:The idea that they would then teach others to do the same becomes leadership.
Speaker B:So they're going to lead others in that path of discipleship, hopefully.
Speaker B:But, you know, there are people then who will raise up in leadership, whether it's, you know, leading in a ministry, maybe wanting to lead a church, maybe they want to lead parts of your church, or you want them in eldership, or you just name it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:The question is, how do you develop a person to lead?
Speaker B:I think a lot of the times we get that free agency leadership in our churches.
Speaker B:And so, like, we get there kind of like the training somebody else has given them, whether from the workplace or sports or maybe other churches.
Speaker B:But we're going like, how do we do this?
Speaker B:And so there's five practices that they teach.
Speaker B:Most of them, they're kind of outlined in this book called Hero Maker.
Speaker B:But in that you'll work through kind of like what is our leadership pipeline?
Speaker B:How do we identify a leader?
Speaker B:How do we let people know that we see in them like leadership?
Speaker B:And how do we activate gifts and commission them for ministry and give feedback along the way?
Speaker B:In the same way, you're going to build that for your context, for your people, with your language.
Speaker B:So that one's starting in September.
Speaker B:It's kind of like, like the, the RDC, the reproducing disciples, kind of like 201 and it goes in that way.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So those two pieces, disciples and Leaders are about developing people, reproducing disciples and leaders.
Speaker B:So that's a big, I mean if you're not developing people, the rest of the movement system won't matter.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But he developed.
Speaker B:There's nowhere one to send.
Speaker B:So that's the way it goes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:The next one, the one actually that starts tomorrow is one called the Reproducing Churches Catalyst.
Speaker B:I've actually never been through the catalyst.
Speaker B:I've been through all of the material, so I'm actually going to go through it with the first round of this.
Speaker B:And a guy named Peyton Jones, he wrote a book called Church Plantology and it's basically like the Science of Church Planting.
Speaker B:He's going to be running this catalyst, which I'm really excited about.
Speaker B:But he, the idea of this isn't like here's how to have a, here's how to church plant again.
Speaker B:It's how to build a system within your church that would multiply and send.
Speaker B:So at the end you're not going to have like a ready made plan to go plant.
Speaker B:You're going to have a plan for your church to become a church planting church.
Speaker B:So ideology, framework, definition, kind of like what's your vision on these things?
Speaker B:That's the kind of stuff that's going to come out of it.
Speaker B:And then as you work that plan within your context, you'll move towards those things.
Speaker A:And if people want to register for those, I know registration is still open for Those too.
Speaker A:It's ub.org sl let's move.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And all the information, all the links are there to register.
Speaker A:The, the, the Reproducing Disciples has closed, but the Reproducing Leaders is still open and that's through our website registration.
Speaker A:But the Reproducing Churches goes through actual, through new thing, I believe.
Speaker B:Yeah, actually there's a group called New Breed which is the one Peyton Jones leads.
Speaker B:But they're all partnered together.
Speaker B:Lots of news and exponentials and all that stuff.
Speaker B:But you just follow those links, you'll land There they do a great job communicating, telling you what to expect and what to do.
Speaker B:I'm going to be leading the Reproducing Leaders cohort, which launches in September.
Speaker B:So if you sign up for that, you'll be getting information from me after September begins to just get ready for that as well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I would just say, like, if you missed your chance to get in the Reproducing Disciples one, it's okay.
Speaker B:I'm sure we're going to try.
Speaker B:We are going to run it again.
Speaker B: late fall or the beginning of: Speaker B:We'll kind of assess where we're at on that, and we'll be pushing out resources to remind you that you could sign up or announce those things as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's kind of a good problem to have.
Speaker A:I think that many people excited about reproducing Disciples.
Speaker A:I think that's a great, great issue to have there.
Speaker A:So I want to transition just for the last couple minutes here and talk about.
Speaker A:You talked about church multiplication, multiplying churches.
Speaker A:We do have three churches that are being planted and they launch on September 7th.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:In the.
Speaker A:Let me see if I can get this right.
Speaker A:In Bad Axe, Michigan, we've got Kelly Ball, Arise Community.
Speaker A:Is that right?
Speaker A:Arise Community.
Speaker A:We've got Cedar City and Lansing with Jay Ledley and then Kevin Kowalski and Crossfields Church.
Speaker A:I don't know the town, though, is.
Speaker B:I know North Royalton, Ohio.
Speaker B:North Royalton, Ohio, southwest suburb of, of Cleveland.
Speaker B:So they're about 20 minutes from where we are.
Speaker A:And so the next three consecutive weeks here on these live at lunch conversations, we'll be talking to each of those three because they launch September 7th and Sunday, September 7th, and we'll be talking to all three of them again on September 10th, that following Wednesday about how their first Sunday goes, which I'm really excited about.
Speaker A:I know you've worked with all three of these individuals and their, their journey towards church planting here.
Speaker A:What can you tell us from your perspective about, about the churches and your excitement and what you're looking forward to when they launch on the 7th?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I would just say, like, I'm really excited about all three of these churches and specifically I'm excited about the church planters and just the way that they've worked through this, calling into church planting, the work that they've done to get ready to plant, just the, the like amount of.
Speaker B:I mean, it's not just work but like prayer and engagements, you know, Building relationship, developing vision.
Speaker B:You know, it's just.
Speaker B:It's an incredible thing.
Speaker B:And if you, you know, like, if they always talk about, like, how, like, grandbabies bring new life into families and, like, you know, like, when there's a new baby, everybody feels alive in a new way.
Speaker B:And I think if you want to be excited about the movement of the gospel, talk to people who are starting new churches or new ministries, because your heart just, like, fills up with.
Speaker B:With faith in a new way, you know, because seeing God do things that are really cool.
Speaker B:Just yesterday, Kevin was in my office.
Speaker B:He's local here, and we were talking about, you know, what God's doing.
Speaker B:And, you know, there's ups and downs when you're starting new things, no matter what it is.
Speaker B:And so we talked about ups and downs, but he shared about a couple from our church who's been helping with kids ministry and their preview services.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they re the one woman reached out to Kevin's wife and said, hey, I think we might actually want to be a part of your church.
Speaker B:And we're really excited.
Speaker B:We feel God calling us.
Speaker B:And, you know, man, it's like he's telling me somebody's going to leave a family's going to leave our church to go be a part of his.
Speaker B:And I was, like, so excited.
Speaker B:Not just that he had another couple that was interested, but that, like, you know, this family is feeling a call, and they're hearing the voice of God and they're saying yes to ministry.
Speaker B:And, like, you know, that kind of stuff is.
Speaker B:Is catalytic.
Speaker B:And I think that's the stuff I'm most excited about when I think about these new churches.
Speaker B:You know, Kelly's up in Bad Axe.
Speaker B:It's a small town in the Upper Peninsula.
Speaker B:Not Upper Peninsula in the thumb of Michigan.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, I don't know much about bad acts, but I. I can't imagine that there's been a lot of new churches started in bad acts in the last, like, you know, 50 years.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Here's this person who's intentionally moving into a community with a group of people who feel called to reach these people.
Speaker B:And, you know, like, that's amazing there.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And not to say that there's not good work happening in the churches there already, but there are.
Speaker B:There's still people who don't know Jesus yet.
Speaker B:And so somebody come to town to be that.
Speaker B:And Jay's got this real heart and passion for students at Michigan State, and there's a love for Michigan State and Jay's heart for for years.
Speaker B:You know, like, just like he grew up loving the Spartans, and now somehow.
Speaker A:Somebody has to, right?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:I always feel like the Spartans are like our blue collar friends.
Speaker B:I don't know why.
Speaker B:Like, it's like, hey, we're all just kind of like, unless you're a Michigan fan, you're like, yeah, Michigan State.
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker B:You know, so.
Speaker B:But he, you know, he's had this love for.
Speaker B:For Michigan State and the Spartans forever, and now they live in East Lansing and they're trying to figure out how do they build the church around the idea of, like, people, adults and others discipling the next generation of Christ followers coming to campus.
Speaker B:And then, you know, we got these four years with these kids.
Speaker B:They've got four years with these kids, and then they'll be sent off across the world to do all sorts of things.
Speaker B:And part of that would be make more disciples.
Speaker B:So I'm really excited about.
Speaker B:If you're praying for them, I just say, like, pray that.
Speaker B:Pray for courage and encouragement.
Speaker B:You know, like, Kevin was asking me, like, hey, how many people came to your launch 15 years ago and how many people came back the next week and how many people were there six weeks later?
Speaker B:And all of that started to, like, raise up in me these, like, memories of, like, the ups and downs and like, these moments of going, like, are we gonna make it?
Speaker B:And will anybody be there?
Speaker B:And, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, stuff.
Speaker A:So I was gonna ask you about that.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, talking to them and what does it bring up in you as you plant this church?
Speaker A:And so I guess in that, like, a more specific question is, at what point did you feel like, all right, this thing is gonna go like, day one?
Speaker A:Or was that like the ups and downs through the first year?
Speaker B:Oh, man, I think I will tell you, like, I. I think I always believed that Renew Communities would, like, last.
Speaker B:So I always believed that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then I almost always.
Speaker B:I often doubted it, if that makes any sense.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B: facility where we're at since: Speaker B:And I remember probably four or five years ago talking to somebody on the phone while I was carrying things in to the building to set it up or whatever.
Speaker B:And I said to this guy on the phone, I'm like, oh, the life of a church planter.
Speaker B:And he goes, well, bro, like, you got like, let's say, I don't know.
Speaker B:He's like, yeah, 500 people, your church, your budget is secure, you're in a long term facility.
Speaker B:Like, at what point do you stop going the life of a church planter?
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh man, that's interesting thought.
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah, I still feel that.
Speaker B:And, and honestly, Brian, you asked that question, like, when did you think, like it's gonna last or whatever?
Speaker B:Like I have to remind myself in moments of tension or challenge, like if our, like this year we were behind budget, we've been behind budget a lot of the year to make intentional choices, to think like this is okay because this like PTSD of church planting ups and downs.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like there were so many times we're like, are we going to make it?
Speaker B:What are we going to do?
Speaker B:You know, how's it, you know?
Speaker B:So that.
Speaker B:That doesn't really answer your question.
Speaker B:I would say probably about year three or four, we kind of sustaining and year five, we moved into this facility, a smaller version of the one that we're in right now.
Speaker B:And we grew enough that we could kind of pay the bills and without outside support.
Speaker B:And so I think that was probably when I thought, okay, I think we're solid.
Speaker B:But you know, dude, we go through Covid.
Speaker B:We had floods in our building and I'm sure other people had moments of like, are we gonna make it through this?
Speaker B:But it sometimes feels like as a, I don't know, as a church planter, I'm sure entrepreneurs feel this and stuff.
Speaker B:You go, are we gonna make it?
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Yeah, sure.
Speaker B:So anyway, I think that's good tension.
Speaker A:To hold probably though and not to feel like we've arrived.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's maintain this.
Speaker A:But let's, let's, you know, what are the issues that we're still dealing with and like we're still wrestling through it and where do we still need to, to lean on, on the Lord in this and obviously everywhere.
Speaker A:But sometimes it's not as obvious.
Speaker A:Sometimes when you have, when the machine is working like it, you know, you get it to a certain point.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love to hear that.
Speaker A:The other thing you said too, and we got a comment from Ryan Kof here.
Speaker A:I'll throw up here in a second.
Speaker A:But just the idea.
Speaker A:I love the open handedness of, you know, when Kevin said, you know, there's family from your church that may be coming to his church and the open handedness of not like, oh no, what are we going to do?
Speaker A:We've got a children's ministry spot to fill now.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's you almost commission with blessing, like go and be there and help that grow and reach people.
Speaker A:And serve families in North Royalton the way you've done it here in Berea.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I would just say, like, we, we sent, we commissioned probably 20, 25 people with him in May to go.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I was very excited about that.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:The only thing I regret about is I wish there was more people going.
Speaker B:You know, I wish 50 people going.
Speaker B:And there is this, like, give and take of, like, okay, if we send 50, what.
Speaker B:What are we sending with those 50?
Speaker B:You know, we're sending volunteers, people who serve on Sunday mornings, leaders of microchurches and huddles.
Speaker B:We're sending people who give to our budget, you know, like, people who, if they're that passionate about going, are probably living on mission and inviting people into our gatherings.
Speaker B:But, you know, like, I think you just think about this is the gospel, right?
Speaker B:Like, it's like we, we give what has been given to us so that others may know.
Speaker B:Like, we lay down our lives so that others may have life.
Speaker B:And so I think.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:We also, we preach all the time about when, as pastors, when we preach about giving or tithing, it's like, well, we trust God with what he's entrusted to us, trusting he'll give and support and take care of what we need for tomorrow.
Speaker B:And like, if we can't do that with our churches, then, you know, we shouldn't be too surprised when we start holding it tighter and tighter and then we strangle the life right out of it, you know?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So really being open handed is the only way forward, man.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love it.
Speaker A:I'm gonna throw this comment up from Ryan, just says, appreciates the updates, reminders and encouragement.
Speaker A:He's excited to hear how people are responding to the trainings.
Speaker A:And yeah, Ryan, I think as we mentioned before, you'll hear from some of our church planners in the next couple of weeks, actually for the next month, the next four Wednesdays, you'll hear from our church planners.
Speaker A:And so we're excited about that.
Speaker A:Andy, thank you for your investment in them.
Speaker A:And I know there's been a lot of other people, you know, in their, in their orbit, praying for them and launching them and, and resourcing them and all of that.
Speaker A:So appreciate the work that you've done to help prepare them for what they're about to launch on September 7th.
Speaker A:And thanks for joining us today and on this, you know, live at lunch version of UB now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Can I say one more thing?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I mean, you had a great closing there.
Speaker B:I should have let you go.
Speaker B:But What I would say is, like, if you are watching this and you have anything in you that's like, man, is that me?
Speaker B:Should I be starting something?
Speaker B:Is God calling me to start a church in my community?
Speaker B:If you're a pastor and you're like, hey, we should probably be sending people, but we're not sure how to.
Speaker B:These.
Speaker B:These catalysts are great for that.
Speaker B:But, man, just reach out to me, Andy, at ub.org andyoub.org and I would love to just talk with you on the phone, pray for you, pray with you, encourage you, fan into flame, whatever God is like planting in your heart.
Speaker B:If something stood out to you at national conference and you haven't been able to shake it, whatever it is, like, let's go.
Speaker B:You know, we want to see more and more happen.
Speaker B:I just was telling Brian before this started, I was praying about this this morning, like, God, who's next?
Speaker B:You know, within our denomination, who we can send?
Speaker B:I had a couple that I was investing in.
Speaker B:Probably like seven or eight years ago.
Speaker B:It moved away from our church down south, and now they're back kind of in another community, and they.
Speaker B:They've kind of thought about church leadership and planting, but now they're sure this is what God's calling them to.
Speaker B:So I'm like, could it be a partnership?
Speaker B:Is this something that they want to do with us?
Speaker B:And so just, like, I'm open.
Speaker B:I'm ready to help you figure out what God's doing.
Speaker B:And I think God wants to keep moving in our.
Speaker B:Our movement, you know, no doubt, new churches.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:No doubt.
Speaker A:I love the emphasis there that the United Brethren Church has on that, just moving into new places, planting new churches.
Speaker A:And I know you've been.
Speaker A:You've been at the helm that.
Speaker A:A big part of that in the last couple of years.
Speaker A:So, yeah, reach out to Andy.
Speaker A:If you're.
Speaker A:You're feeling that, that tug, that pool something on your heart and you've got questions about it, reach out to Andy.
Speaker A:Andyb.org and we'd love to get you connected.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:With that.
Speaker A:I'm not gonna.
Speaker A:I'm not gonna close this again.
Speaker A:Andy, you got anything else to say?
Speaker B:No, I'm good.
Speaker B:Thanks, man.
Speaker A:Yeah, very good.
Speaker A:Thanks for joining.
